EPISODE 16: Terry David Mulligan
Erica Ehm chats with Terry David Mulligan about his early broadcasting career with stories about John Candy, Janis Joplin, Jimmy Hendrix and Joni Mitchell, how he brought MuchMusic to Western Canada, and his secret sauce to get amazing interviews.
Terry also talks about how Kiss taught him to handle difficult interviews, how he ended up hosting a wine show with Jason Priestly and how he manages to keep on rocking at 80 years old.
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Show Transcript
Speaker 1:
Got some good rock 'n' roll coming up for you now.
Speaker 2:
The guys from Kiss have arrived. They snuck in the back door.
Speaker 3:
[inaudible 00:00:06].
Speaker 4:
You spend your whole life doing the first few albums, and then suddenly, everybody needs your attention.
Speaker 5:
Erica Ehm's.
Speaker 6:
Thanks, MuchMusic.
Speaker 5:
Reinvention of the VJ.
Speaker 7:
A flashback on the career that made them who they are today. On this episode.
Terry David Mulligan:
Hi, I'm Terry David Mulligan. It's nice to have you back with us again.
Terry David Mulligan:
Absolutely no way that you could ever put a value on creative freedom, no boundaries, creative freedom. What do you want to do? Go ahead. Here's a camera. Here's a studio. There's people who will support you and help you. What do you want to do?
Speaker 5:
This is Erica Ehm's Reinvention of the VJ. Now, here's Erica Ehm.
Erica Ehm:
Hey there, I'm Erica Ehm, and welcome to what is going to be a bit of a music history lesson on this episode of my Reinvention of the VJ podcast. My guest today has been a fixture in the Canadian music scene, way before the Beatles. Yeah, you heard me right. When he joined MuchMusic in 1985, two decades after his first gig as broadcaster, there were already rumors swirling around that there's a portrait of him growing older in an attic somewhere. This guy does not age. He's interviewed over a thousand performers over four decades. He's adored by musicians, especially on the West Coast of Canada, and he continues to reinvent himself, with no sign of slowing down. My guest today is the unstoppable Terry David Mulligan, affectionately known as TDM. Before I invite TDM into the conversation, let me give you just a bit of background about this podcast.
Erica Ehm:
I was told that if I wanted to launch a podcast, I should pick a topic that only I could do it justice. So I was thinking, "What is something that I can speak to with authority that very few others can?" Sure, I can speak to motherhood, having built the YMC mom community and a marketing agency, but being an ex-VJ who has changed careers, grown businesses, and reinvented myself, that resonated with me. And therefore, I created Reinvention of the VJ, unscripted and heartfelt conversations with the talented and much-loved hosts that you probably grew up watching on MuchMusic.
Erica Ehm:
Now, listen, I was only at Much for the first decade, so many of the guests being featured on the show, I've never actually worked with, but there's one thing that we all have in common. Each of us played a small part in Canada's most influential pop culture platform and then we left at different times for different reasons. Each of us set off on our next adventures. And it's that story of what happens after Much, the reinvention, the resilience, innovation, the luck, the struggles, and the perspective. That's what really intrigues me.
Erica Ehm:
So, I want you to know that I am super grateful that you've chosen to take the time to listen to today's show. So, I hope that you enjoy all of TDM's stories and I am sure he's going to have a lot of them. I also want you to discover some tidbits and some insights into what it takes to reinvent and to make the life that you want, because if TDM can do it, why not you, right?
Erica Ehm:
If I can be totally honest with you, I'm having way more fun doing this show than I actually imagined. It's allowing me to have conversations with some fascinating people who I only would've met through our Much connections, which brings me to today's guest. Terry David Mulligan, TDM, and I have always worked at opposite ends of the country. We've worked together briefly on events like the MuchMusic Video Awards, but for the most part, we've never really had a good sit down until now. TDM, welcome to the show.
Terry David Mulligan:
Thank you. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm thrilled to be here. It's weird to watch this time go by. As you speak about it, I have flashes. I think about places and moments that I haven't thought about it in quite a while, but they're locked away. All you have to do is unlock them.
Erica Ehm:
We're going to unlock them today, but before we do that, I need to talk to you about something, okay, and there is not an ounce of facetiousness when I ask you this question, okay. You are approaching 80. You've got TV shows on the go, radio shows on the go. You're all over social media. You've got a home studio. You rock the grandkids. Terry, what the hell is your secret to staying so young? And I'm not actually kidding. Seriously.
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, the thing is I don't think about it. I don't think about being old or young. I will admit to... This is supposed to be in acting terms. This is act three. There's the beginning, there's the first third of your life, there's the middle that's a blur, and then there's... And you actually become aware of the days going by, the weeks going by, the years going by, and you keep looking around you. Me, now, I'm seeing not only famous people [inaudible 00:05:33] we wake up every morning and we go, "Oh man." You go, "[inaudible 00:05:37]. Oh my god." And then the next day it hits somebody else and it hits somebody else.
Terry David Mulligan:
And you're surrounded by people of the same age, at least I did growing up, now, and you think, "Is it them or me? Who's going... How long are we going to be around?" And so, you can't let it get to you. All you can do is charge forward. I know that Meg keeps asking me, "Why are you working so hard," but then she understands because it keeps me active. It keeps the brain going. It keeps the body going. It makes you make decisions. It makes you reason. The research, just reading the research alone helps me, and I just feel all of everything's functioning except for the knees.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah, it certainly is functioning. I want to go back now. Let's see how well your memory is. Okay.
Terry David Mulligan:
Oh, yeah. [inaudible 00:06:37].
Erica Ehm:
I remember seeing a photo of you on a cover of a magazine way back in the day. You were dressed like a Mountie and I was thinking, "Oh, that is so perfect, because TDM is the all Canadian broadcaster. We all love him." And then I find out you actually were freaking Mountie-
Terry David Mulligan:
I was a freaking Mountie. Yes.
Erica Ehm:
When you were 18 years old.
Terry David Mulligan:
Just as I applied, they changed the birth date that you could apply from 18 to 19, so I had to sort of kill a year. I worked at an A&W. I went down to the States and drove around. And then I was 19 and I was immediately shipped out, shipped out. And I was, I left Kamloops at the time. My father was the game warden there. And I got on a train and I got off in Regina in the middle of the snow, a blizzard, and the sergeant, no, the corporal who was there waiting for me at about 3:00 or 4:00 o'clock in the morning, half of him was covered in snow. The other half was a buffalo robe. And I looked at him and I thought, "What the hell have I done? What have I done? This is madness." And so I challenged myself to survive the year in training and then became a Mountie
Erica Ehm:
I read a book called the Alchemist. I don't know if you've read that book or not, but part of the, sort of the theme behind it is that we're all presented with signposts that sort of point to your destiny, but we only see those signposts when we're ready.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
And when I heard about your story about being a Mountie, and then the way you discovered radio, I thought, "Man, that is a signpost." Can you tell me the story of how you went from a Mountie to beginning a recording or a radio announcing career?
Terry David Mulligan:
Could I give you two answers?
Erica Ehm:
Is one not true?
Terry David Mulligan:
In terms of signposts, it wasn't till later when somebody interviewed me and they said, "How did you get from there to there," and I started to look back at my life when I was growing up. I went from North Vancouver. My father took the game wardens job in Kamloops, and all of a sudden I'm going to North Kam High, NorKam, and I'm the guy that's doing the PA announcements in the principal's office. Why? Because I liked the microphone. Friday afternoon at noon, I did, I played records in the gym and everybody showed up and had food fights. And I... So, there was something about that microphone, about the music that was moving me along.
Terry David Mulligan:
So anyway, I'm a Mountie and I'm in my RCMP vehicle, cruising and driving. I'm listening to the car radio, the radio I should listen to, but I have music on the car radio. And at nighttime, if I'm doing the night shift, I'm listening to jazz stations coming in from Vancouver and Salt Lake City. And then one of the guys, one of the announcers locally in Red Deer was a guy named Hell Weaver, who ended up at CHUM Toronto. He was really good. I don't know what he was doing there, but he was really good, with a huge voice.
Terry David Mulligan:
And he and I got to be friends, and he invited me up to the radio station. And I went up those 32 steps, and as soon as I saw that control room, he was doing his show standing up in a three-piece suit. You can wear anything on radio, sweats, that's, a hockey sweater, whatever you... You don't have to get dressed up for radio. He was dressed up to the nines. He had a neck mic, a ring around his and a microphone sitting right here, and he was moving and shaking. He was taking all of the records, throwing them up in the air, [inaudible 00:10:31] them on the turntable. And I just went, "Oh, this is cool." And he-
Erica Ehm:
But wait, can I just go back for a second?
Terry David Mulligan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Erica Ehm:
Did you just call him up and say, "Hi, you don't know me. My name's Terry. Can I come watch you at the station?"
Terry David Mulligan:
No, no. We just became friends. I don't know how that worked out. I saw him doing his show at an A&W. And I was parked and I walked over and talked to him and listened to music and all that stuff, and that's what started it.
Erica Ehm:
Ah.
Terry David Mulligan:
But he said, "I think you want to do this, don't you?" I said, "No, I'm a policeman." "Let's try something. Let's record something." We recorded it. It was terrible. We recorded it a second time and a third time and I started to get a little comfortable with it. I didn't have to operate the board. He was doing it. And eventually, we did a demo and they hired me. And that's the end of that.
Erica Ehm:
That's so cool.
Terry David Mulligan:
That was just unbelievable. And I actually had to phone my father. If you want to leave the RCMP, you have to do what you call purchase. You have to purchase your way out. You have to pay your way for everything that they paid for your training, whatever's left on it. You put it in five years, initially. And I purchased, which is a dark stain on your career with the RCMP, and I phoned my father and I said, "Dad, I've left the RCMP." "To do what"?" "I'm going to be a disc jockey, dad."
Terry David Mulligan:
And he hung up and he didn't talk to me for a couple of years. He was very disappointed, but I kind of knew, I kind of felt like I had done the right thing. I really didn't know myself. I just thought, "What the hell have you done?" And then everything started to, I just loved what I was doing, I loved the world I was in, and then that was it. And I starved for a good five years. I made no money. I had nothing, nothing. I had no money, no honey, no nothing. And eventually, it all sort of worked out.
Erica Ehm:
You sent me some photographs when we knew that we were going to do this conversation and I was freaking out. One of them that you sent was you and Janis Joplin.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
Can you tell me the story of Terry and Janis back in the day, when that was, and what happened?
Terry David Mulligan:
I can't tell you where exactly that was, probably the Coliseum. It was taken by James O'Mara, who was the photographer who took that great shot of Bryan Adams in his Rickenbacker, [inaudible 00:13:08] his leather jacket. That first one that we really loved, the Cuts Like a Knife album. That one right there. And he's shot lots of stuff. But that was backstage when we were talking about introductions and things like that. Janis and I, got to meet her long before she became famous. I walked by a building that's still on Fourth Avenue of Vancouver called the Russian Hall, and they were rehearsing in there. They were getting ready to do a soundcheck. And I just, I leaned against the door and people were walking by and [inaudible 00:13:40] didn't know who they were, and we became friends and then she became famous.
Terry David Mulligan:
And I interviewed her maybe half a dozen times, but the deal with Janis was she was a nervous interviewee. As good as she was on stage, she was very nervous around a single microphone and just answering questions. And so she drank Jim Beam bourbon and whiskey just to calm her nerves, but she insisted that you drink with her. And I was not a whiskey drinker. I didn't drink whiskey at all, and I would have two mouthfuls and I'd start to lose it, and I'd have three or four more fills, and I'd be gone. And she would laugh her ass off, and the interview would fall apart and we'd separate, and I'd see her another six months later, and we'd do exactly the same thing. That was the deal. You had to drink with her.
Erica Ehm:
You didn't send me a photograph of you and Jimi Hendrix, but legend has it that you guys were tight?
Terry David Mulligan:
Yep. I wish we had been tighter. I wish we had been friends, actually. And how is it that I could do a half-hour interview with the entire Jimi Hendrix Experience, Noel Redding, all those guys, and not get a photograph. What was I thinking? What, he'll be back in the next couple of weeks, maybe we'll do it then. I really liked him a lot. I liked him a great deal. And he grew up in Vancouver, partially because he, his family was sort of fractured in Seattle, and his aunt and his grandma were there. [Vize 00:15:22], just a little place called Vize. It was a breakfast, lunch, dinner place. It was the first black restaurant in Vancouver and the building's still there, actually. And so, we kind of had that connection. We had that connection. And I really liked him as a, he wasn't the near the fearsome guitar burning demigod that everybody else saw. I just saw him as Jimi. Kind of cool.
Erica Ehm:
Well, it's all cool, the fact that you have seen so many artists at the beginning of their careers, and you've been able to not just watch their careers, but participate in their careers. Joni Mitchell is another one. You sent me a photograph of you and Joni Mitchell when she looked like she was 18 or something. You probably were, too.
Terry David Mulligan:
With a beard? Oh, I don't think so. That was, that shot, by the way, is a black and white shot taken backstage. It was the first fundraiser to start a group called Greenpeace.
Erica Ehm:
Wow.
Terry David Mulligan:
And actually, you know what. I found this just the other day. This is an album. I don't know if I can [inaudible 00:16:32]. Sorry for those of you on just listening. This is called Amchitka, the 1970 concert that launched Greenpeace, Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, Phil Ochs. Right.
Erica Ehm:
Wow.
Terry David Mulligan:
And somebody did a recording on the board, obviously, and the book came out, then the album came out, and I was on it. They sent me some shots of the night. I had forgotten that I'd done this, by the way. When they phoned me to get ahold of me about the book I went, "What? I was what? I was where?" I had forgotten that this had happened.
Terry David Mulligan:
And then I saw the photographs, and there's a shot of me, you won't believe this, there's a shot of me adjusting her microphone. Where are the roadies, where's the stage manager, and why am I adjusting Joni's microphone? I don't get it. Anyway. That night, they raised 35, $37,000 and started Greenpeace. That one night right there was fantastic. And then, but the cool thing is that I had known Joni a lot, many years before, when I was... One of the deals I had in Regina was, I was still the young announcer, was if I emcee all of the full club of things that the Fourth Dimension Coffee House in Regina, I could stay in the other half of the band house, which was cool. Right?
Terry David Mulligan:
So I'd stay in half of the band house, and whoever was playing the Fourth Dimension Coffee House would stay and the other half, and we'd meet in the kitchen. So, Joni and Chuck Mitchell show up. Chuck's nowhere to be found. They're there for two weekends, so I've got 10 days with Joni Mitchell in the living room. And so, we always had that connection. We always had that connection.
Erica Ehm:
That's incredible, Terry. You have seen things that... Well, I'm going to hear about some of the things that you've seen, and the thing is that because you've stayed in the music business all these years, you become this repository of music knowledge that you can pull out for all of your interviews, and you give such deep context to everything. It is no surprise that you were hired in 1983 to be the very first VJ in Canada. Now, that's interesting because people think it was Christopher Ward on MuchMusic, but in fact, it was you on the CBC. So, tell me about how you ended up hosting Good Rocking Tonite.
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, I was doing CFOX at the time in Vancouver, and I think there were auditions. I think I can remember doing something in front of a camera. It seemed like just a great extension of what I was doing on radio. It didn't seem like it was out of reach. I had some acting training. That helped. That helps a lot. And I just felt like I could do this. You've been there. You understand that. And when you walk in, all of a sudden, you're very sure of yourself. We're all sure of ourselves. That's what we have in common. In this case, they saw what they wanted. They needed someone who's very, because nobody was doing rock 'n' roll on television, as you know.
Erica Ehm:
Right.
Terry David Mulligan:
And the people running television wanted nothing to do with rock 'n' roll. [crosstalk 00:20:08].
Erica Ehm:
Wait a second. I'm going to interrupt for a sec. That's not actually true because the new music was on the air already at that point. I think it started in 1979. It was a different type of a show. It was more documentary. It was more in the street.
Terry David Mulligan:
But still music. Good.
Erica Ehm:
Yes.
Terry David Mulligan:
But where I was in Vancouver, they wanted nothing to do with it. The people running television wanted nothing to do with any of this stuff. And so, it took Ken Gibson, who was the producer, who'd come from England, the new Top of the Pops and Old Grey Whistle Test and all that stuff. And he just, he said, "Why are we not doing it here?" So that's, he convinced them to do it and I was the guy who stepped forward. And I knew it was a hit. I did. And I, you could just, there was a buzz and I was getting my mail, real mail, and people in the street. And they didn't think they had anything. I knew it was going to do really well and it did.
Erica Ehm:
How did you know that it was going to do well?
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, it was just a buzz. People talking about it. That was the... It's not like email now. That was the rule of thumb. People talking about it to you. If two or three or four people in at a single day talk to you about, mention that they saw or heard something, that's okay. Then the next day, if you get three or four, and [inaudible 00:21:23], that is word of mouth and you think, "Okay, now we got something going on here."
Erica Ehm:
And then, MuchMusic started in 1985 when you went, "What the actual heck." You're on my territory.
Terry David Mulligan:
No.
Erica Ehm:
How did you get connected to Much? Did you ask them, did they...?
Terry David Mulligan:
Listen, I was thrilled by MuchMusic. I just [inaudible 00:21:42]. Wow. Wow. Look at that. Nobody is apologizing for anything. They're just doing it and just running with the ball. And I thought, "That's fantastic." So, here's the deal. I'm in Toronto and I don't know why I'm there, for some sort of an event, I think. And Meg, my wife was with me. We're in a hotel room and for some reason that was the moment that I phoned Moses Znaimer.
Erica Ehm:
You called him.
Terry David Mulligan:
Him, and it must've been arranged for me to call because I had my pitch, and Meg listened to this entire conversation that I had on my end like this. [inaudible 00:22:27].
Erica Ehm:
If you can't see Terry right now, he's holding his hands over his face and I think his wife was feeling some sort of horrific conversation was happening. True?
Terry David Mulligan:
Sorry about that. She thought I had completely blown whatever opportunity I had to talk to him because I was basically saying, I was challenging. I knew a little bit about him to know that that's... He kind of challenged people in conversations, as you well know, Erica. That's the first thing he did was challenge you just to see how you reacted. And-
Erica Ehm:
Do you remember what he said to challenge you?
Terry David Mulligan:
He said, "Who are you and what do you do?" And I said, "I'm your competition and I'm kicking your ass." And so there was a [inaudible 00:23:08]. He didn't drop the phone. He didn't hang it up. I just had to say something to get his attention. And I said, "If you haven't noticed, most of the [inaudible 00:23:17] over the last couple of years are heading to the West Coast. You guys are not out there. You're not a nation's music station. You're Ontario, you're Toronto's music station. Let's expand this. Let's get it out. We have, why are we not doing something on the West Coast?"
Terry David Mulligan:
I was more a fan of MuchMusic than he realized. And so, and he said, "And you're the guy." I said, "I'm the guy." So, somehow we came to an agreement. And somebody wrote an article about when I hooked up with MuchMusic. The end of the article said, "Let's see how long these two get along," but I thought that the key to my success as MuchMusic, at least staying alive and well, was that I was on the West Coast and Moses was in Toronto. And I was happy with that. I loved talking to him, but he was a tough cookie.
Erica Ehm:
I think that, for the most part, he left a lot of people alone.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yep.
Erica Ehm:
And it's kind of fascinating when you think about what you were doing. You launched a branch of MuchMusic on the West Coast.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
What kind of direction or limitations or structure were you given to run Much West?
Terry David Mulligan:
Actually, it was a 50/50 conversation because I had ideas about how the west could be covered. And then, I had to fit it into the, what John and Nancy wanted for MuchMusic. John and Nancy said, "Just go to a BCIT and get a student and see if they can find a three-quarter inch camera and a recorder, and then see if you can have him come out and meet you once a week." I went, "John, you can't shoot like that. Look at you guys. You've got cameras. You've got dedication. You got editing suites. You got everything." So we finally worked out an agreement. I had to, it took me a while, believe it or not, to find shooters who understood what MuchMusic [inaudible 00:25:18]. As you know, the MuchMusic shooter was the best.
Erica Ehm:
They were the best.
Terry David Mulligan:
[inaudible 00:25:24] on camera. They were the best. Basil and Jay and all those guys, they were the best, and it was up to you to keep up to them. And they were really sharp. I couldn't find that on the West Coast, at least not initially. Eventually, did find shooters that got it. And so, basically I just, I tried to shoot as much as I could. I shot seven days a week when it... Because there was this ongoing, and still probably to this day, this ongoing folk myth that it rains every day in Vancouver.
Erica Ehm:
Doesn't it?
Terry David Mulligan:
When it didn't rain, we would grab a camera and go out and we would shoot five shows in shorts and T-shirts, in the middle of winter, just to piss people off. I just loved doing it. It was such fun. And we really, and that's what it was. I just tried to have fun with the camera. And there was lots to shoot.
Erica Ehm:
Well, you basically became the ambassador of western Canada to the rest of the country, and-
Terry David Mulligan:
But they needed voice, right?
Erica Ehm:
Yes. And I remember you being frustrated because, I don't know, you had an hour a week or some sort of a... You didn't have a lot of time on air.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
And I remember it. I'm not sure if I actually heard you in John and Nancy's room, but you were always begging for more airtime for all of the bands.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah. Well, because I could see what was going on around me. And as you well know, it's pretty rock solid that the music business runs from Toronto out. That's where all the headquarters are. That's where all the decision makers are. Same thing with the film business. And I just thought, "I have to be as aggressive as I can be and keep my job, and speak up for bands in Edmonton and Calgary and Winnipeg." Oh my God, Winnipeg. Man, just to this day, Winnipeg is just filled with artists, filled with bands. And the West Coast and then Vancouver Island. And we kept celebrating ourselves and I thought, "That's not good enough. How about with the rest of the country?" So that's what I decided to do. And it felt really good to do that, to be able to speak on behalf of your constituency, your friends.
Erica Ehm:
So when you launched Much West and it started to take off, tell me how the music industry changed in the western part of Canada, thanks to Much West and TDM.
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, I mean, do you... You and I can easily talk about how MuchMusic changed the music business in Canada, period.
Erica Ehm:
Totally.
Terry David Mulligan:
Bands that wouldn't have gotten arrested by radio were welcomed with open arms, and then their neighbors and their friends and everybody else came along with them. It was a warm hug to musicians across the country. There's a place. You have a home. We didn't say it. We just were it. That's what we were. And so, that's the same thing I was selling on the West Coast, was you have a voice now. You have a camera. You have a way to talk to the rest of the country, all the way to the East Coast. And just imagine, if you get their attention with your music, you can go tour there and you can get support from MuchMusic. And the whole thing... That's what we're, that was the best thing of all, was that MuchMusic brought together all of these communities. It's a huge country, as you well know, and all of a sudden we were, we just brought the whole country together. It was magic.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah, and I think what I loved about it so much was that the kids in Newfoundland knew what the kids in Vancouver were listening to. There never had been sort of a national voice of music. Everything was spread out, obviously, because the country is so big. And so, we started this, I think, I would say that we started this Canadian culture, as opposed to regional cultures.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah. Were we thinking about that at the time? I think we were just doing what we were doing. [crosstalk 00:29:44].
Erica Ehm:
Yeah. I don't know if I was thinking about anything. I think I was head down, just doing what we love to do and talking about the music and, obviously, sharing the bands that we loved and giving them a lot of airtime, but I don't know if we had, if I had the vision of we're bringing, we're changing Canadian culture. I don't know that we thought that.
Terry David Mulligan:
I got that. I got that maybe because I was on the outside looking in because I was watching MuchMusic from afar and I studied it. I thought it was a great idea a long time coming and it was fantastic. That's why I wanted to be there. I can remember Alan Doyle from Great Big Sea and his solo career talking about everybody... He, Great Big Sea, and everybody around him were making music that had been handed down from family, generation to generation, sea shanties, Celtic music, fiddle tunes, whatever. And then along came a video that Spirit of the West had done, Home for A Rest, I think it was, and MuchMusic showed it and it changed everything in the Maritimes.
Terry David Mulligan:
All of a sudden, they realized that you could be a punk band and still do these same tunes. You could be aggressive and pop-ish and loud and aggressive and still do the same. They were both doing the same, but John Mann and Spirit of the West showed a new direction for Celtic music and they just grabbed onto it. It was a big deal and he says it was the start of his real music career.
Erica Ehm:
Did he tell you, did Alan tell you that I was the first MuchMusic person to discover the band and interview them?
Terry David Mulligan:
No.
Erica Ehm:
Want to hear the story?
Terry David Mulligan:
Yes, I do.
Erica Ehm:
It's actually a really sweet one. I was hosting a show called Clip Trip at the time, which was music that was sort of not mainstream, international type music, not straight pop music. And so, Newfoundland has a unique style of music. So, myself and [Morgan Flurry 00:31:55], who was one of the producers, went to spend a few days in Newfoundland to shoot a show. And we were invited to Alan's kitchen, and we were invited to a kitchen party with the band. And yeah, that was, that was really fun.
Terry David Mulligan:
Wow.
Erica Ehm:
All I remember is it was amazing and I was sitting on his lap and they were, I think, signed about a year later or something like that. It was a great memory for me.
Terry David Mulligan:
How much footage do you have?
Erica Ehm:
Well, I have nothing. You? I have nothing. MuchMusic has it all.
Terry David Mulligan:
No. Some of it ended up on YouTube and I kind of, I just, I would... Like for example, Neil Young had his 75th birthday party or anniversary. I did six interviews with Neil Young. I've never seen them.
Erica Ehm:
I know. I know. This is, it's a problem. Apparently, there is a lot of concern that the tapes, because they were tapes, are degrading in storage somewhere that CTV owns, that Bell Media owns. So, there's a lot of concern that a lot of this great footage is going to disappear.
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, I think they digitized it. I just wonder if they did it all or did the right ones. I don't know.
Erica Ehm:
Okay. Terry, I know that this is an unfair question to ask you, but I'm going to do it anyways, the Sophie's Choice question. If you had to, who are your favorite bands from the West Coast?
Terry David Mulligan:
Oh, come on.
Erica Ehm:
You have to.
Terry David Mulligan:
Can you imagine if I turned that around and asked you about you and your Toronto bands? Okay. The bands that stay with me are Doug and the Slugs, who are kind of lost now in the scheme of things, but at the time, they were just an sensational band and they played, I think it was 35 dates at the Commodore Ballroom. They were the darlings of Vancouver, and they were incredible to interview. They gave us amazing videos to play because Doug knew what he was doing. Anyway, Doug and the Slugs. Harry Manx who's on Salt Spring Island, is an amazing guitarist from another world. He just, he plays the blues as though he grew up in India. Jann Arden, because I'm thinking now about the west. I think about Alberta core blend, Jann Arden, k.d. lang, Leslie Feist, people like that. I've left out friends. I'm sorry. I'll just leave it at that. It is a tough call.
Erica Ehm:
I'll tell you who my two faves are from the West Coast. 54-40.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yep. Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
They were my buddies, and Sarah McLaughlin.
Terry David Mulligan:
Of course. Of course. Of course.
Erica Ehm:
Those are my two faves from the West Coast, amongst others, but it's my Sophie's choice. If I had to, those would be the ones.
Terry David Mulligan:
My favorite 54-40 album, as much as I liked everything that they did, was the one two albums ago, which was acoustic, all stripped down, all of their music done just with piano and guitar. Aw, man, I play that all the time. I love it. Love it a lot.
Erica Ehm:
So, this is one of the things that I had mentioned earlier on, Terry, where I said that you don't age. I don't know, a lot of 80 year old men that freak out over 54-40, who speak about music like a teenager.
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, I'm sure there's people out there in your podcast who would say, "Act your age," but I'm going to do an audition and the father I think is 60. So you have to transcend that. You have to just be a father and not worry about what the number is. This music bug bit me very early [inaudible 00:35:57] a bit of a music major in high school, and I gave up being the quarterback on the football team to be in the band. As a kid said then, a band [inaudible 00:36:09].
Terry David Mulligan:
But I have always felt extremely comfortable with music because I knew music theory. I knew where the, I knew when a singer was off key. I knew where the beats were. I can actually edit music now because I know where the rhythm is, and I know where the key is, the key changes are, and so it's all one big giant love in with music.
Erica Ehm:
Jim in Dartmouth, one of the listeners in Nova Scotia, wants to know of all the musicians you ever saw or interviewed, who had the most talent, but never seemed to make it big either because of the times, record production, or just plain imploded?
Terry David Mulligan:
You know what, that might be the hardest question of all, because you don't want to shortchange anybody but who could have been? Oh, yes. His name was Richard Bell, pianist, incredible pianist, a boogie woogie pianist, true New Orleans stride piano, professor long hair type. And I met him... Who was he playing with? Ronnie Hawkins. He was in Toronto, and I sort of followed him as best I could. He ended up being in Janis Joplin's last great band.
Terry David Mulligan:
When she died, when she overdosed, the Toronto guys, there were three of them in the band, drove north from Los Angeles to my place in Vancouver, spent the night, we had a bottle of wine and bawled our eyes out, and then I sent them on their way to Toronto. And then he became a member of the band and then I always saw him playing with Colin Linden.
Terry David Mulligan:
He was, first of all, he was a hunk of burning love. He was an incredible looking guy. And he played a piano and had somebody taken him, he would have been Harry Connick Jr. He would have been just like that. All the talent in the world. And when Colin Linden and I talk, we talk about Richard Bell, and then we talk about everything else.
Erica Ehm:
Mm. So Terry, let's talk about interviews.
Terry David Mulligan:
Oh.
Erica Ehm:
There's a question, first of all, from Robin in Ontario, and she wants to know what your most memorable interview of your 40-year career has been? Just an easy question.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah. Keep in mind, what was her name again?
Erica Ehm:
Robin.
Terry David Mulligan:
Robin. Keep in mind that not only did I do MuchMusic, but I also did movie television interviews at the same time, and for 10, 12 years, I would go to Los Angeles or New York on the weekends and screen a couple of movies, sometimes as many as five, and do anywhere from 20 to 50 interviews in a weekend, three minute interviews. But you got to talk with the stars that you wanted to meet all your life. So, those are memorable, like Robin Williams, always, always, always memorable. All you had to decide going in was what was the first question, because then get out of the way. Just get out of the way. Like on a rollercoaster ride, just set it in motion and away you go. Robin Williams was the best interview. Frank Zappa was the best rock 'n' roller interview, period.
Erica Ehm:
Really.
Terry David Mulligan:
But you dare not start with a lame question, because it was over. But if you engage them with the first question, he was with you. And we became very good friends, actually. And the last interview I did with him was in his home in Laurel Canyon, and I can still remember the kids running in through the interview. So, that's Dweezil and [inaudible 00:40:14], right when they were kids.
Terry David Mulligan:
Anyway, interviews. Wow. The Stones, you remember because they're the Stones. Man, oh, Roebuck "Pops" Staples, the head of the Staple Singers, the father, you remember him. Jim Carrey, Madonna.
Erica Ehm:
You got to interview Madonna?
Terry David Mulligan:
For all of three minutes. And my question to her was, she was the star of, maybe it was Evita, and I said, "If your management came to you and said if you stop being a singer and just concentrated on acting, would you do it?" She said, "How big do I have to be? How big do I have to be? Why can't I do it all?" So, it was pretty cool.
Erica Ehm:
Wow. I want to talk about the art of interviewing.
Terry David Mulligan:
Ah.
Erica Ehm:
Which obviously, there's no one else who can respond to this question like you. So, how do you prepare for an interview?
Terry David Mulligan:
I try to find the answers before I ask the questions.
Erica Ehm:
What do you mean?
Terry David Mulligan:
I try to do my research until I can see that there's a nugget of a question that if I head in that direction, it can lead to other answers. You just have to, it's a key to a door. If you find out, for example, if someone, when they were very young, now that they're a star, but when they're very young, was insecure and never came out of their bedroom on the weekends or whatever, you just find out something, and so then you find a way through the music or the film or whatever to that moment. You just find another way to get in there without asking it directly.
Terry David Mulligan:
I just try to know where the answer is going to go before I get there. I'm always open to completely ad-libbing something totally, and having no, none of that because there should be questions that immediately pop into your brain as you sit down. And that was one of the keys when we did those Junket interviews. And they're three minutes. This is three minutes, two cameras. You sit down, put on a microphone, that takes exactly 15 to 20 seconds to get that microphone on. In that 15 to 20 seconds, I'm asking my first, I'm actually talking. I'm actually talking to the person I'm looking at. They've been in that room for three hours, in three minute increments, and they're tired and they want to go home, but if you engage them in the first 20 seconds, the rest of it falls into place. But do your homework. Do your homework. That's all.
Erica Ehm:
Interesting. And has your approach to interviewing changed over the last 40 years?
Terry David Mulligan:
No. No. I just I tried to get better at it. That's all. I tried to get better at it. And I know when I'm bullshitting and when all I'm doing is just filling space, and I apologize. Sometimes, I apologize and come back another time or I do the best I can.
Erica Ehm:
Okay, Terry, you do this thing, and I don't even know what it is, but you throw the mic in someone's face, or the camera's rolling...
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
And you just start chatting.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
And you don't even ask a question.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah, that's right.
Erica Ehm:
What, explain that to me. Give me the... This is the secret TDM sauce. What is it?
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, an interview... You know how they use that phrase, a Q&A, question and answer?
Erica Ehm:
Yeah.
Terry David Mulligan:
I don't want to do Q&A. I want to have a conversation that, after it's done, I cut myself out and the other side of the conversation remains. That really is one of the keys, because I do my own editing. I'll ask that question but if I can find a way to not ask the question and just let the... No, that's not true. What you do is you ask that question and then start to cut the back end of it, so it all, it becomes, instead of a 90-second answer, it becomes a five-minute answer. That's the key of editing, is to just get out of the way and let the conversation flow.
Terry David Mulligan:
But I love ad-libbing at the best of times and it kind of stems from when I was in Toronto for a couple of months and I did an audition for a Molson Golden Ale because I was, that's what I was doing. I was acting. And it turned out to be just one of the greatest gigs of my life because I was working with John Candy and Dan Aykroyd and Gilda Radner, and all of those guys from Second City. They were doing-
Erica Ehm:
On a beer commercial?
Terry David Mulligan:
They were doing the beer commercials [crosstalk 00:45:13]. For five years, we did beer commercials together, and I watched them ad-lib their way through their comedy and what they did, how they taught the Second City. And I'd learned from that. I learned that, just go with it. Just go with your heart. Go with your feel. Trust yourself. Apologize if you ask the wrong question, and just do it. Every once in a while, as you know, some on the other side of the question, will just go, "That's stupid." Fine, stupid. Yes it is. But can you answer the question?
Erica Ehm:
So what happens when you're doing an interview and you go in your head, "Okay, this thing is going south. This is not working." What do you do?
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah. I usually stop. I just say, is this not working.
Erica Ehm:
Okay, but let's say you're live on Much.
Terry David Mulligan:
Oh, okay.
Erica Ehm:
You're live. You can't. That's, there's no... You don't have the luxury of saying, "Okay, let's just cut it."
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah, it's the walk-in interview that you're doing a show and all of a sudden somebody walks in. Okay, well. Actually, if they're assholes... Sorry. If they're just being dorks, there's not much you can do. You have respect for yourself and your talents and if someone is just not going to play the game, if you're merely a pawn in their game-
Erica Ehm:
Has it happened to you?
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah. Oh, yeah, with Kiss. But I learned my lesson from Kiss. Just hand them the mic and get out of the way, because they're their own show. This was in the dress, and I never should have done it, in their dressing room, just as they were going out on stage, totally buzzed. One of the guys of the band came out, followed the arrows to the left, and the drummer went right. That that's what [inaudible 00:47:07]. And I just I learned from that, instead of, I had a list of questions. They're not going to answer the questions. They're going to say whatever the hell they want to say no matter, well, as soon as your lips stop, they'll start talking. I should have just simply handed the mic to them, and let them do what they planned to do.
Erica Ehm:
So Terry, what makes a good interview?
Terry David Mulligan:
Oh, man. If I'm not there, if literally, they become a, like Robbie Robertson, right? He's a storyteller. The guy tells stories. Just get him going. Just get him going, and then shut up. Get out of the way. Let him finish the story. And then, when the story is done, wait five seconds, or four seconds, or three seconds to see if there's a part two, because sometimes there is. You just, you never know. Live television is completely different, as you well know. I'm talking about recorded stuff, really.
Terry David Mulligan:
Live television, there's a need to fill that space, to keep moving forward, to watch the clock, where you are, and what you're doing, maybe play a tune or play a video. The blessing of recorded interviews is that the stuff that doesn't work, just cut it out and just keep going.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah. I didn't have that luxury many times.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:48:31].
Erica Ehm:
Sometimes I did, but mostly is like, we're live and whatever happens, happened.
Terry David Mulligan:
One of my favorite moments is just my, nobody else ever shares this, but I remember this moment. I was in Toronto for something and I happened to walk in, I think it was like 11:45 on a Tuesday. I walked into the main room and I heard someone say, "There's one." And 15 minutes later, I was on air for a couple, three hours. [crosstalk 00:49:06].
Erica Ehm:
Oh my god, so no one showed up for their shift?
Terry David Mulligan:
Exactly. "There's one." And I never forgot those two words. "There's one."
Erica Ehm:
Yeah.
Terry David Mulligan:
They were looking for anybody who could talk to a camera. "There's one."
Erica Ehm:
When you talk to a camera, who are you talking to? Do you see someone on the other side?
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah, I do think of someone. Doesn't take any shape or form, but I imagine that someone's from MuchMusic in their kitchen or in their living room, maybe in a bar, even. It's just, you think about them and what they're doing. You put it in the back of your brain and then you get on with your job. And especially on radio, I'm very cognizant of who I'm talking to and what they might be doing and how they're feeling. And sometimes, and Steve does this well, he'll say something and then he'll... The other side of Steve will talk to the other Steve saying, "Yeah, but what [inaudible 00:50:12]. In other words, he's got a second voice inside him that sort of questions. It's the conversation that's Steve Anthony had in his brain, except he brings it out through his mouth. He has a dialogue going on inside that nobody else knows, but you hear these two guys.
Terry David Mulligan:
And I've heard a couple of really good announcers, Fred Latremouille for one, who did exactly that same thing. And the second voice inside them was funnier than the first. That was hilarious. It was called calling the shots on the first one. Anyway, it's just a thing that happens.
Erica Ehm:
So, MuchMusic has been described as sort of like a cultural curation platform that changed Canadian culture, et cetera. What do you think is the most important thing that MuchMusic has done over the years?
Terry David Mulligan:
Given exposure to artists that never would have had that exposure, made careers for artists and bands, singers and songwriters, who never would have had the exposure that they had, supported the industry. Expanded it, that's one of the things that it really did. If this was our Canadian music industry, when MuchMusic came along, it went like that. It just opened up-
Erica Ehm:
Well, you just, your hands just opened up about two feet wide. Yeah.
Terry David Mulligan:
[crosstalk 00:51:36]. Literally, it doubled the width of what the pipeline was, all, because it was really formulated and tied down and really boring as hell.
Erica Ehm:
You're talking about the music industry at the time.
Terry David Mulligan:
Totally.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah.
Terry David Mulligan:
Thank you for amplifying that.
Erica Ehm:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Terry David Mulligan:
And it made Canadian music infinitely better, infinitely more interesting, and gave voice to those who didn't have one. And then what came with those artists were their fans and their families and their communities and their provinces.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah.
Terry David Mulligan:
And then Canada. We were a poor second cousin to America. American music just took over the airwaves. And Canadian content was supposed to build infrastructure, like studios and management, and it did in part, but MuchMusic really blew that through the roof. It was invaluable. So, when that history gets written, I hope that MuchMusic's role in it is still as solid as it is in my heart and my mind.
Erica Ehm:
Why did you leave, Terry? Why did you leave MuchMusic?
Terry David Mulligan:
I got to think about that. Denise phoned me and said, "It was a good run." She phoned me, said, "15 years, it was a good run." And I said, "How are you Denise?" I'm the guy that did her audition. I think it was Moses said, "We got somebody we got an eye on. Do an audition with her. Do an interview with her. See how she works, react." So I did that and sent it off, and then all of a sudden, she was my boss. I was... Listen, I was the oldest guy there when I walked in.
Erica Ehm:
Before you started?
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah, so, and I'm the oldest guy as I was leaving. I mean, it was time to turn it over and do something else, although I thought I could be maybe the historian looking at the history of rock 'n' roll and putting things in their place. But that wasn't [inaudible 00:53:44].
Erica Ehm:
Context.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah, context.
Erica Ehm:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Terry David Mulligan:
That's right.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah.
Terry David Mulligan:
But so, I didn't really want to slow down so I just kept going.
Erica Ehm:
But was that hard for you when Denise said, "It's been nice."
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah, it hurt the heart. It hurt. And it made me then look around and go, "What do you want to do now.?" But I already had, I always had some... The first time I ever got fired, I swore that I would never have anyone pull my string again. And so, I had multiple jobs, like you, multiple projects, things that you could throw yourself into if one went away. I always wanted to have at least two or three gigs going, some larger than others, but things there, right. So that if someone said, "Thank you, goodbye," you had something to fall back on, something to throw yourself into, and it kind of worked. Well, it worked for me. It may have given the appearance that I wanted to do everything but I didn't. I just didn't want to ever be in that position again where somebody could affect my life. So, that's that's why I did that.
Erica Ehm:
Exactly the same with me. 100% the same with me.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah. Don't mess with me. Don't mess with Erica. Simple as that. Let me tell you a Moses story. He rarely phone me, but he phoned me once and said, "We made an application for a radio license or television license in Alberta. And one of the businesses that helped us was CKUA radio. Go into a story on them, will you. I'd like to thank them." I said, "Sure." That's when I realized that CKUA was the station that I used to listen to when I was a Mountie in Alberta. Right. This is years later. And I walked into this station in Alberta in Edmonton and they were playing everything. Whoever was sitting in the chair at the time was playing what they wanted to play. That was the music policy.
Erica Ehm:
That's weird. No one does that anymore.
Terry David Mulligan:
Nobody does that. Nobody, nobody. Still to this day, it's what they do.
Erica Ehm:
It's what you do
Terry David Mulligan:
It's what I do while [crosstalk 00:56:17].
Erica Ehm:
Because you're there.
Terry David Mulligan:
What the station does. And I went there, and when I was leaving the station, after spending the day there doing the interview, I said, "This is how I hear radio in my head. If we could figure out how to do this, could I do a show for you guys?" They said, "Well, they don't do rock 'n' roll." "Well, but you don't know rock and roll. You've got your blues, your jazz, everything. Let me just, I'll send you some."
Terry David Mulligan:
So I sent them a demo and they say, "Sure," and so I'm just going now into my 26th year of doing Mulligan Stew on CKUA radio. Holger Peterson, who does a blues show on CBC, his original blues show and CKUA, he's going into year 45. When you get to this spot and you find creative freedom, I'll get back to that in a second. When you find it, and you find what you love, you just do it. So, where I'm sitting now on my studio, I do my show.
Erica Ehm:
At home.
Terry David Mulligan:
And it's every Saturday. It's two hours and I fill it and I love it. I get to do interviews, I get to play all the music, and people seem to really like it.
Erica Ehm:
You have this thing, Terry, where I feel like you are, again, like me, you mentioned, you compared yourself to me. I'm an opportunist and what that, people look at me funny when I say that. Opportunist is not someone, in my mind, who stands on the shoulders of others to get ahead. It's finding opportunities that are mutually beneficial in wherever you look.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
And it seems to me that you are exactly that, where you have an idea, your passion drives you, you get an idea, and then you find the opportunity in order to make it happen.
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, I pitch a lot.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah.
Terry David Mulligan:
[crosstalk 00:58:11].
Erica Ehm:
So you're super proactive.
Terry David Mulligan:
I don't know about you, but twilight, just before dawn, just right about 6:00 AM, 5:30 AM, 6:00 AM, I grab a pad and I start writing down thoughts. Clarity of mind, I think, is what that is. You've had six or seven to eight hours sleep. Your mind is sharp. And I just I feel... That's why I have, I got notepads. I still do pen and paper notepads because I just, I don't want to forget these ideas. So yes, and we challenge each other. I'm sure you've challenged yourself. If you're going to do it, do it. If you're just going to sort of think about it, you're wasting your time.
Erica Ehm:
Ah, well, that makes, that's the difference between there are people who talk and there are people who do.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
And I think you just nailed it. You are a doer. I love the story about how you ended up becoming a wine media personality. You went from music to wine. Why? Because you like wine. You just made it happen.
Terry David Mulligan:
I didn't know much about wine, but I did a series with Jason Priestley, we co-produced it and co-hosted it, called Hollywood and Vines. We were fishing out here and we were in a fishing tournament. We're sitting in the boat. It's just the two of you and a guide. And so he had lots of time to talk, and all he talked about was wine. He collected wine. And I talked about music and about albums and 45s and things showing up at the door every day. He said, "Imagine if we did a wine show. There'd be wine showing up at the door every day." And that's where it started. We started to sort of imagine this and then we hooked up with Chad Oakes, our producer, and we all got together and it took seven years to shoot three years of Hollywood and Vines.
Erica Ehm:
Is it true, though? Do you get wine delivered to your front door?
Terry David Mulligan:
Every day.
Erica Ehm:
Wow.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
I want what you have.
Terry David Mulligan:
But I mean, as I said, I'm surrounded by bottles of wine but there's only that much taken out of each bottle. I just, you sip, you make your notes, you sip, you make your notes. [inaudible 01:00:31]. You can't be drinking at 10:00 o'clock, 11:00 o'clock. At noon, your days are done. So you spit. There's a lot of spitting, just getting a sense of the wine. And then you do your stories on the winemakers and where they were grown, so. And then after I did Hollywood and Vines, I said to Meg, "I like the people in wine. I love the people, the farmers, the winemakers. I like everybody around wine. Let's go take a look in the Okanagan and see what's going on." We got up there, I was doing a panel of some kind, and I got back to the hotel room and Meg said, "Look at this house." And it was a farmhouse, a hundred-year old farmhouse with a barn. And the barn became my studio. Oh my god, I loved it.
Erica Ehm:
Is that where you are now?
Terry David Mulligan:
No, this was a couple of years ago.
Erica Ehm:
Oh, okay.
Terry David Mulligan:
It was the greatest. I was surrounded by vineyards and that's when I realized, this was 2007, I realized there was no one in the Okanagan doing a wine show on radio.
Erica Ehm:
Opportunity.
Terry David Mulligan:
Duh. So, away I went and that's been 13 years ago. So, that's how that started. I love doing... Well, I just finished editing a wine feature. I just, I love it. I love the people around it. And I think... I had this argument yesterday with someone I worked for and they were talking about art and I said, "You know, wine making is an art form." "No, not really." "Yeah, it is." The fruit does it's thing, but you have to make that fruit come alive. You have to, and it has to sit in the bottle for three, four, five, 10, 12, whatever years. It has to be good.
Erica Ehm:
Well, you don't have to convince me at all, because I'll drink that art anytime. Well, not right the first thing in the morning, but... Terry, you also wrote an autobiography called Mulligan Stew, obviously in reference to the radio show that you've done, as well. No doubt, there was a lot of self reflection through that process. So what did you learn about TDM while you wrote that book?
Terry David Mulligan:
Ah, that's a very good point because that's what happens. When you start to open up your heart, you reflect on things that you have long since set aside, right? Family interaction, moments in family relationships that went sideways, friends, friendships broken, friendships found. It's a cleansing of sort. And every time I talk to an author now who's written a book like that, I can relate. I can ask questions that I know what they went through.
Erica Ehm:
I've written a book. I get you.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah. The thing I was always fascinated by is when you go through the editing process again with a book as the writer, and they send you your galleys, and you look at them, and they have all those notations on the side saying, "Lose this. No, no, nothing there. Take that out, da da da," and you're going, "No, these are my, this is my love we're playing with. No, you can't take that out. What about that whole summer of 2004? No." So, and what they find of interest and what you find of interest are two totally separate things.
Erica Ehm:
Right.
Terry David Mulligan:
So...
Erica Ehm:
So what did you learn about yourself?
Terry David Mulligan:
I learned, first of all, hold on to the rights of your book, so that you can maybe rewrite it and do it again. I thought that book could have had a much better reception than it got and I'd love to go back and rewrite it and do it again.
Erica Ehm:
Wow. That's impressive.
Terry David Mulligan:
That's what I learned. And then it also made me a better interviewer because all of those books that come by this time of year where we're doing author interviews. It's good to know what the process is like and what they went through to get that book in your hands, right.
Erica Ehm:
Terry, we're about to wrap up this interview. You've got one last question, which is-
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
Looking back at your body of work and your life at this point, what are you most proud of?
Terry David Mulligan:
Mm. Well, it's just self-serving on my part. Honesty. I tried to keep it honest. I tried to be... I tried not to lie, which is tough in the business because first of all, you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. When someone says, "How'd you like the album," I always ask a question back, "Can I just tell you?" "Sure, go ahead." They're not ever ready for it.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah. They don't really mean it.
Terry David Mulligan:
No, they don't.
Erica Ehm:
They don't really want to hear.
Terry David Mulligan:
No, they don't. And so, you find a way through that. You don't have to lie. You just don't say what you want to say or maybe just say something else. Find something that you did like about it and then talk about that.
Erica Ehm:
So you're proud that you've always been sort of sensitive to other people's feelings? Is that what you're saying?
Terry David Mulligan:
No. No, no, no. No.
Erica Ehm:
Okay.
Terry David Mulligan:
No, I wouldn't go that far. I basically, I shoot my mouth sometimes and it gets me in trouble but I don't mean to be mean. Actually, my mantra now is be kind, but I'm trying to make up for lost ground. Actually, after that book, and there was a strain in there about apologizing for the butthole that I was for many years when I was just pushing my way through crowds of people trying to get to the front. I went back and apologized to many of those people. I made a list and I'm still apologizing. And I'm still trying to be a better person.
Terry David Mulligan:
Just when you get it right is when somebody comes along and says, "Your time's done now." I was thinking about something way back when, one of your questions of the legacy of MuchMusic. There is absolutely, you'll agree with this, I think, absolutely no way that you could ever put a value on creative freedom. No boundaries, creative freedom. What do you want to do? Go ahead. Here's a camera. Here's a studio. There's people who will support you and help you. What do you want to do?
Terry David Mulligan:
I mean, in our lifetime, we might get one, maybe two opportunities like that, ever. Other than that, everything has a, "Oh, by the way, you can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do this, you can't do..." It's gold. It's absolute gold.
Erica Ehm:
And I think that's what bonds all of us, is that we all experienced that extraordinary gift of creativity, companionship, art, communication, audience for a short period of time in our lives.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah. Yeah. Now, apparently I get to ask you one question.
Erica Ehm:
Yes, you do.
Terry David Mulligan:
Now normally, it would... One question is ridiculous. Nobody asks one question. I thought of things like a favorite moment, favorite concert, all those things that you might ask yourself, but can you, in this process going through the MuchMusic staff, et cetera, I'd love to see you talk to Jay Mirus or Basil, or Tony [inaudible 01:08:13], or any of the shooters about what that was like, maybe even in a group because they all have stories. You know that. Because when we were on one side of the camera, they were they on the other side of the camera. So I'd love to hear that. But will you go looking for John Roberts, chief White House correspondent for Fox News?
Erica Ehm:
You bet I will. I don't know if I'll find him but I will.
Terry David Mulligan:
Wow, there's a journey.
Erica Ehm:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Terry David Mulligan:
There's a journey and he finds himself at the very epicenter of everything that's happening now.
Erica Ehm:
But what's interesting is that MuchMusic primed him for the chaos.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
Gave him tools that he could never have learned anywhere else.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
Yeah.
Terry David Mulligan:
And how close is he to the guy that we knew, the basic core guy? Is he still the same guy?
Erica Ehm:
I don't know. To me, he seems a little unrecognizable.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah, no kidding.
Erica Ehm:
But I think that you need to do that in order to survive in American broadcasting.
Terry David Mulligan:
Wow, what a journey from hard rock, thrash metal to the front seat in the White House. First question, every time, first question goes to John.
Erica Ehm:
Yep. You didn't give me a, you didn't... Is that my question?
Terry David Mulligan:
Well, my question was, are you going to go find John and get him on camera?
Erica Ehm:
Okay, and I've answered it. And thank you so much, TDM. What a pleasure for me to spend time with you and to get to know you a little better, and hopefully everyone who listens to this podcast will be inspired by your energy, really, your nonstop energy and your opportunistic, and I mean that with love, your opportunistic, constant reinvention, and your passion for creating new stuff.
Terry David Mulligan:
We have a lot in common, you and I.
Erica Ehm:
We certainly do.
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
If you would... That's me wrapping you up, and now to the listener, there are many more episodes to come and I would like to have you as part of it. So you can always find me on social media. Look for Erica Ehm on LinkedIn, on Twitter, Instagram, even Facebook, and you could share some feedback about the show. You can go to the website ericaehm.com/podcast and you can find all the other episodes of this show. And we'd love to get your feedback. Leave a review. Leave five stars, obviously. Right, TDM?
Terry David Mulligan:
Yeah.
Erica Ehm:
Five stars. This is a five-star show. And subscribe because there are so many more amazing stories to be told on Reinvention of the VJ. So, thanks again for listening. Thank you again, TDM, for making time for me, and here's to many, much more music and meaning and many reinventions.
Speaker 7:
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 5:
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Speaker 7:
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Speaker 5:
Podcast produced in collaboration with Steve Anthony Productions. Editing and coordination, Aflalo Communications Inc. Copyright 2020.